Spectators and Tournament Mode.

[stillgolfing]

I remember a couple of weeks ago in one of the forums someone posted to a new member that to enjoy PGA 2000 courses to the fullest you should play in Tournament Mode (to see spectators and tournament objects). I notice with some courses it doesn't make any difference, No spectators or tournament objects are shown. Is this a designer choice, and if so is there a record or note anywhere that indicates which courses have spectators and tournament objects?
Thanks, Dave

[A Brandt]

Dave, you are correct in that it's the designers choice to include spectators. I, myself, rarely include tournament objects, unless the course I'm designing has a "tour" feel to it. I like to think most of my courses are more geared toward the average golfer. As far as I know there's no indication as to whether a course has spectators or tournament objects until you play it.

[stillgolfing]

Thanks A.B. for the prompt response. Figured as much, but just wanted to be sure.
Cheers, Dave

[Indy Anna Jones]

In tourney mode you also get the audience applaud if you enjoy that. I like to use it with season play. I've always like to put in a crowd but have only used the cameras and booths on one course. It's a matter of choice and I don't know of any list either. I do know that Polslad has HUGE crowds and I think Somerfeld does too.

[Polslad]

Just at the Open venues Indy, try to give us mortals a feel of what its like playing with the big boys!

[ADC]

I can see arguements for various crowd sizes. Some courses, like a Doral, are meant to be seen by thousands at the event, and millions at home, so I can see an arguement for including tours and such. If it's a Pine Valley, which hosts the amatuer-level major Crump Cup every year, I might want to see a few hundred. But Pine Valley is extremely hard to get around with anything other than a caddie, let alone miles of cabeling. So, maybe they should be left out.

I just wish there were a way to set more things to tournament-mode only. I love to see "up" tees when I am just playing by myself. It gives a feel for the "daily operation" of the course. But if I'm wanting to play a season mode, I find them odd. If the PGA Tour is in town, only the tips are there. And that's just an example. It's one of the reasons most real courses can't handle frequent tour stops. It's an infrastructure nightmare.

I guess I'm saying two things. 1, I can see how it all boils down to a matter of taste. There is an art to this game, and many creators, in my mind Polsad and Summerfelt most notably, who are very, very good and getting a "feel" to their courses. you play them and "feel" a certain atmostphere. Planting all boils down to that. 2, my personal taste is for the most realistic environment I can get. If I have TV towers, I'd also like to see access roads there somewhere, lol. More work? Better course, to my taste.

[sandwedge]

I like the idea Dave posted somewhere about a separate "tournament version" course file. I am like ADC in that if you are going to create a tournament atmosphere then don't just add crowds and noise. The only way to do that realistically is to put out 2 versions of a course - one with the normal sounds, all of the tees in view and minus the entourage and routing of access roads and then another with all of the changes that go into making a course tournament ready. You can set 3D objects to tournament only but there are just not enough of them and no one has given us a way to add more so that we could have some more creativity with designing. If I could, I would make this a part of an update to the PGA engine but alas, I need an update myself

[Indy Anna Jones]

My husband had the idea once of creating 4 different course files for LeGolf National. Each one would have its own tee and pin position for rounds 1-4. By the time we finished it... well between boredom and fatigue the project was dropped. I understand what you're saying about liking a course looking "real"; the total ambiance of the plot is very important to me also; I've always disliked those with nice planting around the holes then a big blank undeveloped/unplanted area between the routing and the pano. I think I mentioned in my review of one of Spencer's courses that I liked how his limited planting was done in such a way that it blocked the views to those areas; it was pretty impressive.

Speaking for myself, but when I get towards the end of "construction" I have to be very careful in trying to add something extra. A path/road takes up a lot of points and IMO is something that has to be constructed at the same time or even before the hole construction is going on or I'm asking for trouble. JMHO.

Now as far as the 3D and tournament libes are concerned I share your feelings 100%. The bridges are too limited, ugly and either too large or too small most of the time. I admit to building my water hazards, ponds, etc. and elevations around them according to how I can fit a bridge in. I would love to have ropes for the galleries as a 3-D tournament object... again fences are very limited, and although they've got some nice ones, after seeing the same ones on 1000 courses, they become pretty commonplace.

I've said it a 1000 times at least, but I wish that the Headgate people had updated this game just one more time with attention to the 3-D libes and a few of the game flaws. They didn't, so wish in one hand...

[sandwedge]

Great post Indy - agree about having ropes, man that would be sweet. I see too about the agony of reproducing another version even if it is to make it tournamnet playable. Look how long it took Spencer to get to Mountaineer v.2 On my to do list - review the new look and give feedback to Spence. But yeah, I see that you want to enjoy making a course but not be so fatigued at the end of it that you never do another one - kind of why I don't play Links - the APCD is realistic but just too much of a drain to work with. I mean, I have kids that I love and a wife that is awesome and folks I want to hang out with - can't be bothered with 3000 hours to tweak a point to perfection

[Indy Anna Jones]

Greg and I piddled with the APCD a couple of times back around 2001. I liked the feature that would build a complete course, but I remember trying to, as you say, tweak a point trying to make a sandtrap, IIRC. It changed it from an intricate spider web to a kids squiggle drawing. That was too bad, because though I did and do enjoy playing PGA2K better than any other golf sim, even then Links had some gorgeous graphics. IIRC I had an Oakmont course in the fall (or I set fall, I can't remember) that was a real pleasure to look at.

Btw, I said that I/we usually used galleries for our designs. I deliberately left them off of Bali Shandra because I didn't think it'd look appropriate with all occidental faces. That's something else that the Headgaters needed to address.