PGA 2000 on a VM?

[Viper]

A lot of people stayed with PGA 2000 when Headgate moved over to develop the TW series because they felt like the swing was dumbed down and too easy and the influence of EA wanting a game for the masses was blamed. It's interesting to bring up this mouse issue and I wonder if that was the real reason for them making the swing easier. It didn't seem like we really know about it at the time. I had TW 02 which was the first Headgate version and I tried it again with TW 05. I played both for a few months but I couldn't tell you exactly why the switch didn't stick for me. I know I didn't think the mouse swing was as good and it may have also had to do with the great community we had in PGA 2000 where you knew a lot of the regulars vs. the masses of unknown people who played the TW games.

I'm positive it all came down to mice. You look at that 2000 to 2005 period and we all likely went from using ball mice, to optical mice, to precision optical mice.
Depending on what you had, would determine the opinion you would have of PGA 2000 and Tiger Woods.

Since I started posting, I went from thinking PGA 2000 Trueswing was totally overrated and I hated it.
I thought TW03 was the best mouse swing in computer golf.

It's all changed because I bought a cheap mouse.
I could not play TW with a cheap mouse, it's totally unplayable, way too easy.
PGA 2000 is great on the other hand.

I can totally understand how back then there were those who stuck with PGA 2000 and thought TW was too easy because they had ball mice or early optical. Then those who jumped at the Tiger Woods game thinking it was great because it was challenging for them was likely due to the higher quality optical mouse they owned.

I need far more time with both games but at this early stage using the two different mice, the games feel quite equal in difficulty. I expect to shoot similar-ish scores in both games.

PGA 2000 is the better game imo and I also prefer the 2D graphics over TW 3D.
The TW courses all have a similar look and fakey feel. It becomes visually boring fast.

[BrianZ111]

I prefer 3D due to better accuracy in ball collisions with trees (although I've seen some instances in JNPG where that's not the case) but totally agree with the sameness problem. It's always been exponentially more difficult to create custom 3D vegetation for courses.

[DC#1]

Sorry I'm late to the party. Great news about the site Brian, thank you so much. I actually just installed TW 08 and agree that the courses kinda all look the same. Great to hear you are enjoying PGA so much. I'm still designing courses for this game. I was wondering if I was the only one left playing. Look forward to your next diary entry now that I know someone else is around.

[Viper]

Sorry I'm late to the party. Great news about the site Brian, thank you so much. I actually just installed TW 08 and agree that the courses kinda all look the same. Great to hear you are enjoying PGA so much. I'm still designing courses for this game. I was wondering if I was the only one left playing. Look forward to your next diary entry now that I know someone else is around.

Welcome back to this side of the fence David! It's almost starting to get busy around here! lol

I'm very pleased to read you are still designing. I have downloaded all your courses and will play them all in time.
I've started a PGA 2000 season, played 9 rounds so far, it's enough already to know I won't be dropping this game anytime soon.
I played Links 2003 for many years but after going back to Links LS 2000 for a while and now also finding PGA 2000, I don't know if I can play Links 2003 again. I have tried to start a new season but it's become an effort to load up a round. I'm not just opening Links 2003 because I want to open it. Kinda starting to feel like it's a task.

I feel I have found better even though the games I'm playing are not newer.

I'm totally fine with that. (Hope no Links people drop by this site )

[DC#1]

Don't worry I played Crooked Creek yesterday. Looks nice. I wish EA had given PGA it's HD upgrade before they left for TW. I'm working on my first real course. It was the course I played a lot when I was young. I prefer fictional courses because you have more creative room.

[Viper]

Fictional based on real courses are the ideal type of course for a golf game imo.

Real courses don't always translate well in golf games so I believe if this is the case, you need to make adjustments so the game version creates and gives you the same challenges as the real life course does the real life golfer. If you have to deviate from an exact duplicate of the real course is not important.

This is what I intend to do with my first design when I create one. It's a local course I have played many times. At my peak in real life, shot a 64 there myself. To replicate it in a golf game, it would get massacred by people and the true real life difficulty and design of the holes would never be experienced in the game.

For this reason, I intend to make each hole play in the game giving the same challenges as the real life course does the real life golfer.
It's an incredibly fun course to play. You can be greedy and have success or just as easily be greedy and get punished. On my day, I was greedy, everything went right for me. Other days, I took the same risks and they didn't pay off. This element has to be the same in the sim version of the course.

Fictional courses done well are great imo.
They should provide challenge without trickery.

[DC#1]

I totally agree with what you said about real courses in this game playing to easy. That's why I prefer fictional that could be real as apposed to fantasy. This is where you make adjustments in the game like you said to compensate. Not a fan of fantasy courses. Don't like tricked up courses either.

[Viper]

I'm really looking forward to playing your courses. With the help of Brian and Steve, I think I've managed to find the majority of high end courses for PGA 2000.
I've played 5 so far and have been totally impressed and the courses have been beyond expectation.

The entire PGA experience so far has been incredibly positive. I could suggest it's like a modern gold mining area. People have gone through the area for over a century. You go there and expect all the gold to be gone. Then when you spend a little time looking, you happen to find a great big gold nugget!

This has been my experience. I thought I'd been through all the golf games. Then I unexpectedly find the great big gold nugget in the form of PGA 2000.

[DC#1]

Glad to hear your enjoying PGA so much. Now you know why I'm still here after 20 years.

[Viper]

Glad to hear your enjoying PGA so much. Now you know why I'm still here after 20 years.

Hopefully I can match that and you can make it to 40 years!
I should even have a Viper designed course or two for you to play by then.

The more I play around with PGA 2000, the better I think it is. Will go through all my thoughts as I do the diary posts.