Evolution

[ADC]

Hey, all. Here's the thread on my club.

I've spent a long time messing with the architect. I can make same excellent holes, I've just never had the time to sit down and finish a course. That's the goal this time around.

Based on the conversation in Polslad's thread, I decided to go ahead and use 3DEM and Terrain Assist to load a real life plot.

I like courses that are designed for firm and fast conditions, where the wind can completely change the nature of any given hole. I think that's golf at it's best. More times than not, these courses are links courses, but it's also true that some of the most memorable courses like this are no where near the ocean. Donald Ross spent a career making amazing inland courses that fit the bill. But in this case, the course idea's that have been in my mind are seaside. Maybe not with lots of water in play, but definitely seaside.

In the US, Long Island has more than it's share of great seaside golf. I like the pictures I see, of deep, almost red rough, crystal blue water, and wind. Lots and lots of wind. I don't want to build next to Shinnecock or the National, as it's too easy for me to just try and copy them. I am going for a CB McDonald or Seth Raynor look, yes, but I don't want to copy any exact holes.

I got to spend a few hours today toying with find a plot. I downloaded the stretch of Long Island between Southampton and East Hampton. I finally settled on the area around Water Mill, New York. It's mainly flat, very open, and I'm going to see what I can do with it.

The next step is laying the basic shapes, meaning the bay at two coves, and then finding a route. Ideally, it will encounter all wind directions. The plot turned out a little flatter than I wanted, so I'll have lots of mounding to do. But I imagine it will end up a very low profile course, such as Garden City, or The Fisher's Island Club. The links provided have plenty of picks of both of them.

Also, I intend to create a library that sets up for era-appropriate distances. I love the age of hickory shafted clubs. It'll be somewhere between 1914 and 1930, though the difference there is a good drive being around 200 yards and 240 yards.

Here's an article on The Fishers Island Club
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by ... land-club/

And one for the Garden City Golf Club
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by ... rden-city/

[SteveHorn]

Alex! Good luck with your adventure with the architect.

[ADC]

Oy....did I ever mention, I can be a bit scatter brained? Sometimes you pick a project. And sometimes, a project picks you.

In a reply to Polslad, I posted a plot of Pebble Beach that I made with 3DEM and Terrain Assist. It turned out much better than I've seen a plot before. That got me curious as to how the route actually lays out over the land. I routed the whole thing, and then the Architect crashed. I lost it all. So, I've started again, and got this far before I have to run to Mass tonight. I haven't even dropped an object yet, and it looks pretty darn cool to my eye.

Forgive the crudeness. Just thought I might share this. The route thus far is very, very accurate. Within 5 yards either way, at worst.

Also, I'm not sure what I exactly intend for this. The course by Strober/Anderson/McHale is a wonderful rendition. But if I were to finish this, the main differences would be in certain elevations over certain distances. For example, the blind drive on 8. I loaded the PGA version that we have now, and it raises that 30 feet in a little over 140 yards. On my plot, it takes less than 60. Just might be nice. Don't know. What do you guys think?

[SteveHorn]

Alex! I thought you already had some courses partly done! I hate to be critical but you've never completed or released a course yet and your already wandering in a different direction. Is that what you want or do you want to complete a course. If not I apologize for my previous comment.

[ADC]

Stevehorn, thanks. You're comment is very well received, and more than fair. Allow me, please to explain.

Life has been really stressful lately. I'm a school bus driver who now travels about 190 miles a day, thanks to a few new routes I had to pick up. On top of that, we found out last night that my wife will be losing her teaching job at the end of the school year. We are also still within six months or so of my mother passing away. On top of all this, my doctors and I have been trying to wean me off the medications I've been taking for my ADHD and anxiety, as they are no longer working. I guess you could say my real life plate is kind of full lately.

With all this, PGA2k is a much needed release valve for me. It's a chance to just unwind, and relax, whenever I can. And since we are currently in the winter that never ends, and I can't play real golf, it's the closest thing to my daily golf fix I'm going get.

I started toying with this Pebble Beach route simply because I was interested. I'm certain now that I'll build it this year, but your comment reminds me of how scatterbrained I can be when stressed. So, the answer to your question is Yes. I am going to build Water Mills. And, yes, I'm going to monkey with this plot when I can. But as the chaos of life circles, I realize I'm mainly using the game as an escape. Thanks for understanding.

But you do also remind me, I do want to finish. So, that being said, I set a goal deadline of May 1st for Water Mills. It's subject to change, but it should keep me motivated.

Thanks, and sorry if this sounds dramatic
Alex

[bryce]

Alex,
No need to worry about feeling dramatic. We all have our own problems and we all love this game to help us to escape. I hope all goes well with everything going on right now for you.

As for a May 1 deadline, that's a pretty tall order! You will almost have to finish an entire hole per day, as well as have all non playing landscaping and objects placed in another week. Terry Grayson and Robert@ were the only designers that could really put one out that fast. My advice, don't make yourself hurry to finish. Be meticulous with everything to make yourself happy.

Good luck with this project!

Doron

[ADC]

Thanks, Doron.

I picked May 1st because I know I can work fast, especially when I have a deadline. You are right, though. Frankly, if I get both these courses built by working on them everyday a bit (something I can, in general do,) I will finish. Simple as that, I suppose.

As far as being meticulous, that I can do. After trying a few attempts to route Pebble Beach, I realized eye balling it wouldn't work, as the DEM does include some of the terrain beneath the water surface. So, I mapped out "shot points" in Google Earth. Each point is one hundred yards apart along the line, and I've made sure in the Architect that the shot points are the correct distance between their neighbors. Whenever I finish this, it hope it will be very, very accurate. In the Architect, I also mark my shot points with stakes. This way, when I find the correct position of even one point on the DEM, I can literally "grab" the whole course, and the shot points may be as accurate as one yard from where they are in real life.

Alex

[ADC]

Hey, all

So, I wanted to give you a better explanation, PGA2k-wise, to why I've been working on Pebble Beach so much, instead of Water Mill. I guess a lot of it boils down to the DEM's I've chosen, and what the course architect can and can't do.

So, for Water Mills, the idea is a coastal links course on Long Island. Especially one where the coast line is more gradual, instead of cliff-like. While 60 foot cliffs are amazing, there is an intimacy, and a proximity, to water that a beach and low level golf course can give. Examples are the now defunct Lido Golf Club, by CB McDonald, and Jack Nicklaus's Harbor Town Golf Links.

You might say it's ironic, then, that my other choice is Pebble Beach, and I'll agree. But I'll also explain why in a second.

The first image here is the plot I've had for Water Mills. In a lot of ways, it's everything I want. A large bay, and a gradual slope down to the coast. The problem is, for the Architect, and my eyes, it's does it's job too well. I have high levels of accuracy in my mind. When I pick a site, I want to capture it in game as closely as possible. This is probably part of the reason I've had so much trouble finishing a course. "Paralysis by analysis" is nothing new to me. But the simple fact is, I couldn't even make out the prominent features I wanted to include in any good golf course that site would have. I spent two days trying to make out where the coastline is, and just couldn't see it. It's not that I'm giving up on the concept. It's that this particular stretch of earth just isn't going to get it done. So, I'm still going to build this concept of a course, but I just am still hunting for that site.

Another factor was my own lack of a concrete plan. I had ideas for what I wanted, yes, but when I couldn't find it, or figure out how to get what I needed and preserve what I did have, I got very frustrated.

On to Pebble Beach. This DEM is amazing. About the only thing it missed where the severity of the cliffs, as their drop is actually too narrow a distance for the way the terrain was mapped. One of the reasons I like working with 3DEM and Terrain Assist is that I think it's the closest I can get to actually playing the land. Yes, greens and bunkers (and apparently, cliffs) still need to be worked in game. But the overall lie of the land is better than anything I can do, especially since I have a laptop as a primary tool, and don't use a mouse much. My hand made terrains come off too round, and don't look natural.

So, the more I looked at Pebble Beach, the more I realized it was a project I could actually learn from, and have a chance to complete. I've got the routing done, and boy, I feel like I've already learned a lot.

Here's the main things I've learned simply by routing Pebble Beach.

1. Center lines truly are the skeletons of a golf course.In the past, whenever I've built holes, and even stretches of holes, I've always placed my first shot points about 250 yards from the tee. This, I think, is about the average drive in PGA2k, regardless of any wind direction or condition. The shots to the green where as long as necessary. But as I laid my center lines in Google Earth, I realized how absolutely organic it's center lines are. They flow, and wander, this way and that. And when you stretch them out, you begin to see how they not just connect the dots, but shape shots, as well. Nothing is set in stone. It's up to you, the golfer, to play golf. And golf isn't just about hitting the ball long and straight, but about using the land, and your own abilities, to get the ball from tee to cup in as few strokes as possible. So, organic, natural center lines lead to organic golf holes.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't delete them when finish with the hole. Currently, I have 92 shot points, and I'll fully admit, it's cumbersome outside of the architect. But It is the true center line, and I'll delete them as I no longer need them.

2.Personally, I've never been much of a fan of PBGL. I've thought it's too "expensive," too "perfect," too "green." I have no real hard evidence for this, but it's always seemed kind of fake to me when watching it on TV. Like it couldn't possibly be as good as everyone says it is. But in mapping all this out, one of things I've discovered is what a treasure of variety it is. Holes 6, 7, & 8 could easily rival, if not surpass, Amen Corner for sheer thrill in their display of strategic, penal, and heroic golf. But it's the inland holes that really make terrific use of what they have to work with. I'm looking forward to working with the proper elevations, especially for holes 2, 3, 11, 13, and 15.

Maybe I'm still over analyzing. Quite possibly. But, recently, I've also been reading Tom Doak's "Anatomy of a Golf Course." This is an amazingly fun read for anyone interested in course architecture, and Pebble Beach has it's fair share of exposure, as well as many other courses from the 1900-1935 period. I highly recommend reading the book. What it's pointed out to me is that real life architects learn to make their own courses great primarily be being diligent students of the games great golf courses, and by knowing how different golfers approach different shots over the same land.

By studying Pebble Beach and Doak's book, I hope to create a course that not just looks like Pebble Beach, but actually comes as close as I can possibly muster to playing like Pebble Beach. Additionally, when I do approach my own fictional courses, I can't see how spending this time studying how it's done could possibly hurt.

Other reasons I'm wanting to do this? PBGL has changed a great deal since the Strober-McHale-Anderson edition was released. Bunkers have been added to 3, 6, 14, and 15, removed from 2, and all of them have been reshaped course-wide. The course is also far less plush, and the tees for the U.S. Open added. Also, like many of the very fine real life courses we have for PGA2k, many holes in the version we have are relative flat compared to their real life counterparts. (In no way do I mean that badly towards those who worked on them. They are amazing, and our game wouldn't still be active without them.) I simply thought there might be room for an update.

Now that I have the most accurate route that I'm likely to get (I can't believe I spent four days working on routing!), I'm going to turn my attention to creating my libraries. We have an abundance of Monterrey style trees to work with, but I want enough blends to give good transitions from fairways to greens to areas where the grass is more brown and worn down. Also, most pictures I see of PBGL these days make the cliffs look very dark, almost black, which is very different from the golden brown the Pebble Beach library we have available shows. I also want to up the power coefficients, as the default settings in the library creator just aren't powerful enough for the way the modern course plays. 2, 9, and 10 all play as par 4's into the same wind, and are over 500 yards. Into a gusty wind on normal libraries, I've often hit 240 yard drives in PGA2k. Those holes still need to be reachable.

Good luck to all of us on our projects. I'm so, so excited to see what we can do this year, and that there are three or four of us working on projects at the same time. I know you guys have been around as a community for a very long time, and I'm very glad and honored to get to learn from you, and share our designs. it doesn't seem like there are very many of us around, but we can kick a**, and I'm very, very excited to follow you're progress over the next few months.

Here's to great golfing, inside during April snow storms, and outside in the promise of summer yet to come.

Alex

Ps. Sorry for the long post, and for double posting. I know I've never finished a course, and that I've abruptly changed projects. But the fundamental goal for me is still to finish a course. PBGL just won my attention, as well as the challenge of doing a real course. I've never truly attempted it before. But considering I'm already 20+ hours in, I'd say I'm off to a good start.

[SteveHorn]

Alex! Very interesting post. I have a picture of Pebble Beach hole #7 on my desktop. The top half of the cliff and all along the edge has very tall brown grass. Then the bottom half is a Brown colored rock and the rocks in the water have a charcoal look. I can't remember what web site I got the picture from but here's a site you should look at.http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Bea ... ORM=IGRE#a

[ADC]

Thanks.

BTW, does anyone know what file type custom sound effects have to be? I know I'm not nearly that far along, but I want to start collecting things now. It'll give me something to do when the inevitable frustration with something sets in, lol. Plus, the more that's unique, the better the course experience, right?